How a Bioinspirationalist Learns from Nature to Spark Ideas & Ignite Action with Dr. Jeff Karp, Enneagram 7
On this week’s episode of Enneagram IRL, we meet with Jeff Karp, Ph.D., acclaimed mentor and biomedical engineering professor at Harvard Medical School and MIT, a Distinguished Chair at Brigham and Women’s Hospital. As a child, his teacher wanted to hold him back in the second grade. As an adult, he got his PhD, became a celebrated Professor and member of the National Academy of Inventors, and a Distinguished Chair at Brigham and Women’s Hospital where he has co-founded twelve companies, amassed over 100 patents and received 50 awards.
Fueled by his Life Ignition Tools, 'LIT', Jeff turned to nature for inspiration to revolutionize lab practices. Now, Jeff is sharing his lessons in his debut book. LIT aims to empower others to take themselves off autopilot and unlock their own reservoirs of potential.
Grab a copy of LIT: Life Ignition Tools here!
🔗 Connect with Dr. Jeff Karp!
🔗 Connect with Steph!
📷 Instagram: @ninetypesco
🎥 Youtube: @stephbarronhall
Here are the key takeaways:
Jeff’s experience as a child with ADHD
Highlighting Jeff’s Enneagram Type, Seven
What is Radical Simplicity and how is it helpful?
What inspired Jeff’s new book, LIT: Life Ignition Tools?
Low-energy brain state vs. high-energy brain state?
“Do New” practice to tap into a high-energy brain state
“Flip the Switch”, a four-step process to bring more awareness
Connecting to your senses to help get out of the head
Harnessing creativity by increasing your curiosity
Making tiny changes to create momentum
Experiencing awe
Resources mentioned in this episode:
This Week’s Guest Picks:
As an Amazon affiliate, I may earn a small commission from qualifying purchases. Affiliate links are a simple (and free to you!) way to support my work 😊
Enneagram Resources for you!
Want to keep the conversation going? Join me on Instagram @ninetypesco to keep learning and chatting about how our types show up in REAL LIFE!
Learn more about subtypes! Download my free subtypes guide here.
Want to keep learning? Join my Enneagram in Real Life course to start applying all this Enneagram knowledge and start GROWING! Check it out here: https://www.enneagramirl.com
Want to stay up to date with all things Nine Types Co? Join my email-list and receive Enneagram reflections, thoughts about growth and personal development. Plus, you’ll get priority access to new offers and courses! Sign up here.
Not sure about your type? Get my free self-typing guide and a series of six emails to walk you through the whole process. Begin here: https://ninetypes.co/selftyping-guide
Listen to the Episode
Read the Transcript
Jeff Karp: By getting better at asking questions and finding a way to focus my attention through questions, I was not only stoking my curiosity and activating my brain, but I was infusing creativity into my mind and life. So, to me, I feel like anybody can do it. Anybody can get better at asking questions. You can even bring this to social settings, connecting more with people. When you start to become curious about someone, that's when deep connections open up.
Steph Barron Hall: Hello and welcome back to Enneagram and Real Life, a podcast where we explore how to apply our Enneagram knowledge in daily life. I'm your host, Steph Barron Hall, and today's episode features a fascinating conversation. I'm talking with a bioinspirationist. Our guest will explain more about what that means, but essentially, it involves taking inspiration from nature to solve real-world problems.
Today’s guest is a biomedical engineering professor, inventor, and the author of a brand new book that is out today. I already have it selected on my library app, so I’m really excited to check it out, and I hope you are as well.
Throughout this episode, we talk with Dr. Jeff Karp. He shares a bit about his experience as a kid with ADHD, his Enneagram type—Type Seven—and how he has applied concepts like radical simplicity to his work. He even tells a story from his TED Talk about how he changed his approach early in his career, moving from complexity to simplicity and finding greater success. We also discuss what inspired his book Lit: Life Ignition Tools, the difference between low brain energy and high brain energy states, and how new experiences can help us access that high-energy state. Dr. Karp shares a four-step process to increase self-awareness and connect to our senses, which is useful for all Enneagram types, especially head types, but also for me as an Enneagram Three.
We dive into creativity, curiosity, and how small changes in our day-to-day lives can create momentum. One thing I really appreciate about Sevens is that when they feel life is stagnant or unenjoyable, they change things. If they can’t change it, they accept it, but their first move is always toward change. Dr. Karp brings some of that mindset into today's conversation.
I’m not going to keep you too long—I want to jump right into the interview. It’s such a fascinating conversation. I’ve never interviewed a biomedical engineer before, and it’s just such a cool job with so many fresh and interesting perspectives. Dr. Jeff Karp is an acclaimed mentor and biomedical engineering professor at Harvard Medical School and MIT. As a child, his teacher wanted to hold him back in second grade. As an adult, he earned a PhD, became a celebrated professor, a member of the National Academy of Inventors, and a distinguished chair at Brigham and Women’s Hospital. He has co-founded 12 companies, amassed over 100 patents, and received 50 awards. Fueled by his life ignition tools—“LIT”—Jeff has turned to nature to revolutionize lab practices. Now he’s sharing those lessons in his debut book, Lit, which aims to empower others to unlock their own reservoirs of potential.
So grab a copy of the book in the show notes, and I hope you enjoy this episode. If you want to learn more about Dr. Jeff Karp, you can visit his website at jeffkarp.com. Now, without further ado, here’s my conversation with Dr. Jeff Karp.
Steph Barron Hall: Well, Jeff, welcome to the podcast.
Jeff Karp: Hey, it’s great to be here. Thank you.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, I’m excited to talk with you. I know a little bit about your work because I did some Googling, and I also watched your TEDx talk, which I thought was really helpful. It was about radical simplicity and using failure as a jumping-off point, which I really appreciated. So, I’d love to hear a little bit more about your background and where you come from.
Jeff Karp: Absolutely. You know, whenever I get that question, I try to figure out where to start because there are so many possibilities. Talking about failure—there’s just been so much of it in my life and so many struggles. I could go back to second grade, or undergrad, or grad school; there are so many places to start. Maybe a good place to begin is actually second grade because that’s where my life really took a massive turn.
I had undiagnosed ADHD and learning differences. I didn’t know it, my parents didn’t know it, and my teacher didn’t know it. I was just struggling so much because of it. I couldn’t sound out words, and I wasn’t learning anything. I was sitting in the back, frustrated, angry, and demoralized, not connecting with anyone. At the end of the year, my teacher pulled my parents aside and said he’d like to hold me back a year to repeat second grade. My parents negotiated that if I spent the summer with special tutors, I could go on to the third grade. So, while all my friends went on vacation, I spent the summer with tutors.
One day, during tutoring, something transformational happened. We were reading a passage, and they asked me, “How did you think about that?” No one had ever asked me that before. It was like a lightbulb moment. I realized I could think about how I think. Before, I was impulsive—I just said whatever was on my mind or acted without thinking. But suddenly, I had this awareness of my thoughts. I started noticing that whenever I asked a question, my attention became hyper-focused, and I could actually retain information and connect it to what I already knew. This completely lit up my brain, and I realized that asking questions was a tool I needed to survive.
From there, things started to change for me, but I still didn’t get formally identified as having ADHD until seventh grade. My mom fought for me. She went up against the school board, prepared a massive file, and pushed for me to be diagnosed. Once I was diagnosed, my grades improved, but the struggles didn’t stop. It was still exhausting, but that diagnosis was liberating for me.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, it’s so helpful. I really like that story because I was diagnosed with ADHD at the end of grad school.
Jeff Karp: Hmm.
Steph Barron Hall: And I was like, "Oh my God, things would have been so much easier if I had known this all along!" It’s eye-opening.
Jeff Karp: It is. I feel there’s something about having that diagnosis and being able to rationalize how your mind works. Even my wife—during COVID, she attended some group sessions for partners of people with ADHD. [00:10:00] It was a jaw-dropping experience for her because everyone in the group was talking about the same things. For her, it was like, “Oh, you’re not intentionally doing things to upset me.” That’s just how it is. I’ve been trying to develop tools to overcome these challenges, but it’s still a daily struggle. For her, it was earth-shattering to hear that what she was experiencing was common among partners of people with ADHD.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, I need to get my husband on that call! Every time I leave all the cabinets open in the kitchen…
Jeff Karp: Yeah, I do that too! If I don’t see something, I don’t think about it. So, I leave things out strategically. But my wife is super tidy and organized, which is amazing, but I forget things because I don’t see them.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, if you can’t see it, it doesn’t exist anymore.
Jeff Karp: Exactly, yeah.
Steph Barron Hall: No object permanence.
Jeff Karp: Yes, yes.
Steph Barron Hall: That’s so funny. Well, let’s talk a bit about your Enneagram type because I think people might already have a guess based on this conversation. Can you share a bit about your type and how you discovered the Enneagram?
Jeff Karp: Yeah, I’m a Seven—an Enthusiast—and it pretty much fits me to a T. In my research lab at Harvard Medical School, we focus on medical problem-solving. We don’t really have a focus beyond that process, so we’re working on treatments for arthritis, cancer, inflammatory bowel disease, developing needles and implants—it’s all over the place. At one point, the chair of my department said, "No one’s going to understand what you’re doing unless you focus." I tried to take that advice, but I realized Sevens can’t really follow that advice. It's in the DNA to constantly be interested in new experiences. I love experimenting with new things, even in my routines and rituals. Even if something is going well, I’ll change it just to try something else.
Steph Barron Hall: That makes sense, especially with Sevens wanting constant mental stimulation. The passion of Type Seven is gluttony, in the sense of wanting to take in all ideas and try a little of everything. But you also talked about radical simplicity in your TEDx talk, which helps you focus. Can you share a bit about that?
Jeff Karp: Absolutely. I learned that through a fairly painful experience. Back in 2008, I had just started my lab in 2007, and we developed a technology I was incredibly excited about. We figured out how to program stem cells to go to specific sites in the body on demand, like a GPS system for cells. We had data showing it could potentially treat osteoporosis, heart failure, and neurological conditions. I was sure we were on the cusp of something huge.
I went to an investor at Flagship Ventures, met with the founder, and presented the data. I was so excited, I couldn't sleep the night before. When I finished, the founder said, “This is really exciting, but we’re not going to do it.” I was stunned. He said it was too complicated, but I didn’t even hear that part. I went back to my lab, crushed, but I knew from past failures that emotions tend to dissipate after a few days. Once the emotions subsided, I realized we had failed to ask an important question: What happens after we develop the technology? We didn’t consider clinical trials, manufacturing, or anything beyond the lab. That’s when I developed the concept of radical simplicity—the art and discipline of minimizing complexity at all levels. From then on, every project in my lab has radical simplicity at its core.
Steph Barron Hall: That makes sense. I think it takes a lot of mental energy to harness that, more than it would to just jump from one thing to another all the time.
Jeff Karp: Yeah, there’s something almost magical about the focus you can achieve after a failure. After the emotions subside, there’s this window where insights appear. These crucible moments have been transformative in my life. I’ve almost sought them out, in a way.
And I want to emphasize the importance of my mom’s support. Children need more support than we realize. My mom’s unwavering support gave me the courage to take risks, even though I faced major failures along the way.
Steph Barron Hall: Shout out to moms! My mom would put me on a mini trampoline to help me stay moving while I learned, which was so helpful. We didn’t know I had ADHD, but she knew I couldn’t focus.
Jeff Karp: I had one of those trampolines with a handle! It was great.
Steph Barron Hall: We didn’t have the handle; I guess they didn’t care as much about safety back then!
Jeff Karp: Yeah!
Steph Barron Hall: Okay, I want to pivot a bit and talk about your book, Lit: Life Ignition Tools. The subtitle is “Use Nature’s Playbook to Energize Your Brain, Spark Ideas, and Ignite Action.” Tell me more about your book and how it came to be.
Jeff Karp: Sure. I think the big idea is really simple. It's taking yourself off autopilot to live to your full potential. And it's this sense that, um. That, you know, we're just inundated these days with information and stimuli coming at us from all directions.
And I think it's just more challenging than ever to be [00:20:00] intentional in our lives, to make deliberate decisions and to act deliberately and even think deliberately. Um, and. And so lit is a set of 12 simple holistic tools that can help us tap into this incredible energy that we all have within, um, and activate this heightened state of awareness that we can bring to any situation, um, to deepen our everyday experiences and really build and develop.
Tensionality into everything, and it kind of came to be because, um, and my wife actually reminded me of this, um, that when she met me, um, back in the year 2000, I used to carry around all these notebooks and it wasn't like I was doing like serious. Journaling, but I would just write down my thoughts. Um, and I said to her, apparently at one point that I was going to write a book one day.
Um, and so what happened was, um, like seven years ago or so an agent from New York reached out because we do a lot of work in my lab, uh, in bio inspiration. So turning to nature for inspiration for new ideas. Um, and you know, we've looked at like how geckos walk on surfaces and hang from a single toe and there's no chemistry there.
It's all kind of physical geometry interactions. It's really interesting. And we've looked at slugs and snails and sandcastle worms and. Porcupine quills and spider webs and jellyfish and, you know, all kinds of different things. We're looking at a lot of creatures in the ocean now. But there was an article in Fortune magazine on some of the work that we had done.
And so Heather Jackson from New York reached out and said, Hey, how would you like to write a book on bioinspiration? And I thought about it and I was like, you know, actually, that sounds pretty interesting. But what I'm feeling more, what's really transmitting, you know, kind of more for me. Is to write a book about all of these tools and strategies that I've been developing in my life through all the struggles with learning differences and ADHD.
And that's what I really want to share. I don't know. I've always had this sort of inner desire to share. Like sort of to figure out processes that work for me and then to share it with others. And so when I do my scientific presentations, I don't show that much data. I actually talk mostly about the processes that I use to figure things out.
And so this book to me was really how can I just share with the world all of these processes and tools that I have used to kind of get back up from the struggles and the challenges that I face. And to really just thrive in life and in every possible way,
Steph Barron Hall: Wow. I, that's so cool to think about, um, solving things as nature does because obviously we can learn a lot from nature in general. Um, wow. Okay. I, I don't have like a coherent question.
Jeff Karp: Yeah. I mean, I could say one more thing about it if you want is like, you know, it's like, you know, the way I like to think about nature and there's so many ways that I think about nature. So I'll just talk about one here is, um, Evolution is the best problem solver, right? So like anything that's alive today, you know, plants or animals has overcome insurmountable challenges to be here.
Like there's all sorts of changes that have happened in the environment and these creatures have adapted to survive. And so we're literally surrounded by solutions, and so these can be ideas that we can learn from, gain insights from, to help solve problems. Um, and there's so many examples, like even like, you know, examples people might be able to connect with, like, In Japan, the high speed train, um, they were, they were going through these tunnels and it was breaking the sound barrier and created these loud noises.
And so they changed the shape of the, um, the front of the train to mimic the Kingfisher, um, bird, which like basically dive bombs into the water to get its Prey, and so they did that so it would prevent these loud booms, you know, from coming out of the tunnel. And there's just so many examples. There's like a beetle in the desert that can collect water on its back, like through like the moisture in the morning.
And it has these little micro channels that it then it like directs it to its mouth. And so people are now using that to collect fog in, um, you know, very dry places to then, you know, collect water.
Steph Barron Hall: That’s so cool. Nature is fascinating.
Jeff Karp: Yeah, nature is like just so, um, I mean, there's so many facets of nature and I think, you know, we're kind of also getting to this point where the science is, is, is becoming more and more, um, developed and understood about how, when we go out into nature. How it can switch, help us switch from like the, the sympathetic nervous system to the parasympathetic nervous system and really lower our heart rate and our blood pressure and, um, can give us a greater sense of well [00:25:00] being and develop an interconnected mindset.
And so, um, and it's all there, right? It's like, right. Um, and, um, even watching a show, like if you put, if you just put on like a nature scene, like on YouTube, for example, that's been demonstrated to have an effect as well. It's not exactly the same magnitude as if you're out in nature, you know, having that experiential time, but just watching nature.
Um, is has been demonstrated to help people like just have this better this sense of wellness and sort of calming, um, sense. And so I've been experimenting with all kinds of things in nature recently.
Steph Barron Hall: Oh, so cool. Um, Yeah, I think one of the things that's related to that, that you mention in your book is about the high energy state or, um, the brain and like a high energy brain state versus low energy state. And I'm curious if you can share a little bit about that.
Jeff Karp: Sure. This is just how I think about it based on my experiences. I’ve noticed that my brain gravitates toward a low-energy state, which is basically autopilot mode. It’s when your brain anticipates what comes next, like muscle memory. For example, when you’re on your phone, and it tells you to update your password, but you still enter the old one out of habit. Or when you drive to a destination and forget the route you took, or when you eat a meal and can’t remember the flavors. That’s the low-energy brain state.
In contrast, there’s the high-energy brain state, which is where we do our best learning and decision-making. In my lab, we’re working on really hard problems, so we need to activate our brains into that high-energy state. One way to do that is by turning to nature for inspiration. For example, we might look at how ivy climbs a building by sending out little root hairs to latch on. It activates our curiosity and sparks new ideas.
There are many ways to get our brains into that high-energy state. In the book, I talk about different tools we can use to activate that state, helping us make better decisions and deepen connections in our relationships.
Steph Barron Hall: Do you have an example of one of those tools?
Jeff Karp: Sure. One example is a tool I call “Do New.” As humans, we gravitate toward what’s familiar and comfortable, which is a low-energy state. But when we do something new, our brains light up—we literally glow orange on an MRI. Doing new things activates our brains. For instance, when I was in high school and struggling with learning differences, I got into discus throwing. I wasn’t athletic at all, but for some reason, I was drawn to it. I bought a discus, and the art teacher at school, who knew a little about it, became my coach. I loved it. It gave me a sense of purpose and fresh energy in my life. I ended up placing third in my city.
In my lab, we’re constantly exploring new areas, which keeps our brains engaged and energized. Doing new things on a daily basis helps infuse that energy and keeps the curiosity alive.
Steph Barron Hall: It sounds like you naturally have a bent toward trying new things. But what if people are built differently and feel intimidated by the idea of doing something new? How can they change that mindset?
Jeff Karp: That’s a great question. One way to approach it is through a four-step process I call "Flip the Switch." The first step is to notice your inner desire for possibility. This could be in a relationship, a hobby, or personal growth. We’re always getting cues from our minds and bodies, but often we’re too busy to notice them. Tuning into those cues is key, and sometimes that means slowing down and creating space in your schedule to be open to possibilities.
The second step is taking stock of what’s working and what’s holding you back. Maybe there’s something you used to love doing, but you don’t do it anymore because life is too busy. Identifying what’s bringing energy to your life and what’s not is important.
The third step is exploring other ways of thinking and being open to other possibilities. This doesn’t mean jumping into something new right away—it’s about bringing awareness to those possibilities. Sometimes it’s as simple as talking to others about their passions or noticing how people around you find time for things that energize them.
The final step is taking a deliberate step forward. It can be a small step, but focusing on the process rather than the end goal is essential. I find that whenever I focus on the process, I make progress.
Steph Barron Hall: I really appreciate that open-minded approach.
Jeff Karp: Yeah, definitely.
Steph Barron Hall: I had a funny experience like that. I was walking in my neighborhood, taking the same path I always take, and I wasn’t paying attention. I was listening to something, and suddenly I heard a noise. I looked up just in time to avoid walking straight into a wild turkey! I almost ran into it, and those birds are huge and mean! It was a wake-up call that I wasn’t aware of my surroundings.
Jeff Karp: I’ve had a similar experience. One thing I’ve been doing to become more mindful is cycling through my senses while I’m walking. I’ll focus on sight, looking at the texture of bark or the colors of the leaves. Then I’ll shift to sound and listen to the birds or the wind in the trees. Then touch, feeling the wind on my face or the ground under my feet. Even taste and smell come into play sometimes. Doing this helps me get out of my head and connect with my body. I’ve found it brings a sense of calm and well-being, and it reduces anxiety.
Steph Barron Hall: That makes a lot of sense. It’s all about presence and awareness, which can be hard when we’re always rushing through life.
Jeff Karp: Yes, exactly. Another tool I use is called “Press Pause.” It’s about taking time to process experiences and knowledge. I’ve realized that I accelerate after I pause, so I’ve been bringing awareness to that and intentionally slowing down. When I do, I start noticing more things—like how birds communicate or how squirrels move around. There are so many patterns in nature to observe, and it’s fascinating once you start paying attention.
Steph Barron Hall: That’s such a mindful way to approach life. And it’s amazing how these small observations can open up so much more.
Jeff Karp: Yeah, it’s all about being intentional. This morning, for example, I took my two dogs for a walk through the woods near a pond after dropping my daughter off at school. I like to sit on a rock and just watch the pond. Today, there were two swans and some ducks. The ducks were swimming toward me, and it was such a peaceful moment. I find myself getting curious about the animals and their interactions—wondering about their relationships, what they’re doing, and how they communicate. There’s so much richness in those moments.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, that’s so intentional. It takes a lot of energy and creativity. I’ve met people who feel like they aren’t creative, and I wonder how you address that, especially in your book, where you talk about harnessing creativity and energy to improve overall wellness.
Jeff Karp: I think there’s this belief that some people are creative and some aren’t, or that creativity is limited to certain activities. But I’ve found that creativity can be developed, and it’s all about asking questions and focusing attention. When I started grad school, I went to seminars, and when it came time for the Q&A, I noticed other people asking incredible questions that I hadn’t even thought of. I started wondering why I wasn’t thinking of those questions.
At first, I was hard on myself, but then I realized that asking good questions is a skill, just like anything else. So, I started writing down all the questions people asked during seminars, and over time, I noticed patterns. There were categories of questions—about the validity of data, the methods used, whether the results were significant. I became more focused during seminars, paying close attention and looking for holes in the presentations. Soon, I found myself coming up with my own questions and connecting dots to generate new ideas.
By getting better at asking questions, I activated my curiosity and infused creativity into my thinking. And this is something anyone can do. You can bring this into social settings, too. When you become curious about someone else, that’s when deep connections happen. I’ve done this in networking events—listening to how others ask questions and trying to apply that to deepen my own connections.
Steph Barron Hall: I love that you approached it as a puzzle to solve, rather than just thinking, “I’m bad at asking questions.”
Jeff Karp: Exactly. I’ve rewired my brain to avoid shaming myself. Instead of saying, “I’m bad at this,” I think, “I just haven’t found a process that works for me yet.” And that “yet” is key. We all have neuroplasticity—the ability to reprogram our brains and strengthen new connections. It’s something we all have, and no one can take that away from you.
Steph Barron Hall: That’s such an empowering mindset, especially with the “yet.” What advice do you have for people who feel stuck in their routines and want to create positive change in their lives?
Jeff Karp: I’m a big believer in the domino effect—small changes in one area of life can lead to larger changes in other areas. It can be something as simple as brushing your teeth with the other hand. At first, it feels awkward, and you might think, “Why am I doing this?” But after a few days, you start getting better at it, and that’s literally rewiring your brain. Once your brain experiences that rewiring, it craves more of it, making it easier to change other habits.
You could also change your daily route to work or take a different path when walking. These small shifts activate the brain and open the door to bigger changes. It’s about starting small, shaking up your routine, and creating momentum.
Steph Barron Hall: I love that—it’s simple, but it adds a bit of fun or curiosity, like gamifying change.
Jeff Karp: Yes, exactly. I feel like practice can sometimes get boring, but when you find ways to infuse joy into it, it makes all the difference. You might not enjoy brushing your teeth with your other hand at first, but after a few days, you’ll notice you’re improving. That small improvement can bring joy, and tuning into that joy can help motivate further change.
You can also change how you interact with people. For example, before I meet with someone in my lab, I tell myself, “This person is the most important person in their life.” It sets the tone for the conversation and helps me stay grounded and focused on them. These tiny shifts can create a domino effect for more significant changes.
Steph Barron Hall: That’s such a meaningful approach. I was just reading a book this week about feel-good productivity by Ali Abdaal. He talks about being sincere but not serious—approaching things with sincerity but keeping a sense of lightness, which I think ties into what you’re saying.
Jeff Karp: Absolutely. It’s about finding balance and bringing lightness to life. I had this funny moment the other day—I was watching these ducks land on a pond, but part of the pond had frozen over. They landed and just slid across the ice, which was hilarious to watch. Those small moments of joy are all around us, but we have to be open to noticing them.
I had another moment recently where I was looking at a tree swaying in the wind. You could just think, “Oh, it’s the wind blowing the tree,” or you could think, “The tree is waving at me.” That small shift in perspective made me smile and feel connected to nature. It’s like my friend Bridie said: “If someone built a bird, we’d all be amazed, but we see real birds every day and just think, ‘That’s a bird.’” We put things in boxes and miss out on the awe and wonder around us. I’ve been trying to break away from that labeling and instead appreciate the magic of what’s in front of me.
Steph Barron Hall: Wow, that’s so true. Nature has so much to offer, and it’s easy to overlook it. I had a dove fly into my house recently, and while it was a bit stressful at first, I was amazed when it landed on a picture frame and didn’t even budge the frame. It was so light! That little moment has stuck with me, and I’ve been thinking about how fascinating birds are. Those up-close interactions really make you think.
Jeff Karp: Yes! There are books on the power of awe and how it’s all around us if we’re open to it. When we tap into awe, it brings a sense of well-being, reduces stress, and sparks creativity. Whether it’s looking at the stars or noticing how trees bend toward the light, there’s so much around us that can inspire curiosity and gratitude. I’ve been to the jungle in Panama, and there’s a tree there that literally walks toward the light. It has these long roots that allow it to shift toward sunlight as the environment around it changes. Nature is full of incredible stories like that.
Steph Barron Hall: That’s amazing. Nature is so cool! I’m learning so much from this conversation.
Jeff Karp: It really is. Even something as common as a caterpillar transforming into a butterfly—it’s unbelievable when you think about it. We hear about it all the time, but when you really stop and think about the process, it’s awe-inspiring. The onus is on us to embrace that curiosity and awe, instead of just labeling things and moving on.
Steph Barron Hall: I’m really excited to read your book, and I’m sure our listeners will be too. Just thinking about these ideas makes me want to go out and look at the world differently. Where can people find your book and learn more about your work?
Jeff Karp: The easiest way is to go to my website, jeffkarp.com—that’s Karp with a K. The site will have information about the book, my lab, and our bioinspired projects. I’m also going to include a section for my mom to post her poems. She’s written about 300 poems over the past couple of years, and she’s really excited to share them. So, you’ll be able to go to the site and read my mom’s poems as well.
Steph Barron Hall: That’s amazing! I feel like your mom is going to become an internet sensation.
Jeff Karp: I hope so! She’s really excited about it.
Steph Barron Hall: I love it. Okay, I have two last questions that I ask everyone. First, tell me about a book that has helped, inspired, or shaped you in the last year.
Jeff Karp: One book that really stands out is Into the Magic Shop by James Doty, a neurosurgeon at Stanford. It’s an incredible story about his struggles growing up and how he learned about compassion. He walked into a magic shop, and the owner wasn’t there, but the owner’s mother was. She said, “I’m going to teach you real magic,” and it was all about learning to be compassionate toward yourself and others. It’s a beautiful, powerful book.
Steph Barron Hall: Okay. I'm going to go on my library app as soon as we hang up and find that because that sounds excellent. Um, okay. Last question. What is a piece of advice that has really stuck with you?
Jeff Karp: So, um, when I was doing my, my, uh, postdoctoral fellowship at MIT, um, with Bob Langer, um, who's just unbelievable mentor on every level. I mean, he's just, he's actually co founder of Moderna and a number of other companies, and he's just such a good person. Um, and he has given me. So much advice. But one of the things that really stands out is he said, you never want to limit anybody.
Um, and it's something that I have really thought a lot about, like, as a mentor, you know, running a research lab with a bunch of people and just kind of thinking, like, there's so many things that bring energy to people's lives, like extracurricular activities or hobbies or things like that. So sort of seeing people's lives as being [01:00:00] very holistic, that it's just not about um, What they're working on at that moment.
It's really These other components of their life are so important to elevate everything, like they're going to do their best research and their best work if they're constantly evolving and trying new things and getting involved in activities and, and, and also. Working on other projects, like, collaborating with other people, not just having 1 project, but, but, you know, sort of letting them be empowered to use their curiosity to explore things that maybe aren't related to what we have our grant funding for things like that.
So. Yeah, never limit anybody just, yeah, that jumps to mind is something that's really been important in my life.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, that's great advice. And it's also, it also kind of reminds me of your story overall, where in second grade you were almost held back. And then, you know, now you work at Harvard, you did your postdoctoral at MIT and like these illustrious institutions that as a second grader, you know, I don't think that your teachers would have expected that from you.
Jeff Karp: Yeah, they said, well, they asked me, what do you want to be when you grow up? I said a doctor and they said, well, you better set your sights lower because you don't have it in you. Um, to do that, that was, that was one of the things, yeah, that, um, that happened. Actually, what ended up happening is I did apply to medical school and I didn't get in.
Um, so that was one of the big kind of, um, challenges that I faced at one point. So maybe they're right about that. But, um, my career kind of took a different trajectory. I became very excited about, um, problem solving and just this process of medical, medical problem solving. And, and I've just found it, you know, just so exciting. And every day is- There's just so much fresh energy, there's so many problems that are just so important for us to help patients, um, with, and, and that's what I've really dedicated my career to.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah. And it's life-changing for people.
Jeff Karp: It is life-changing, yeah, yeah, I mean, we have, we've had a number of technologies that, you know, are in clinical trials now, a bunch that have actually made it to, um, you know, to patients, and so it's just super rewarding to see people benefit from the technologies that, that we've been, you know, working so hard to develop in the lab.
Steph Barron Hall: I think we could talk for another hour about all of these projects that you've developed, but I think we should wind it down here. So thank you so much for joining me. This has been a great conversation and I've learned so much and I'm excited now to go on my next nature walk.
Jeff Karp: well, it's so nice to speak with you. I really enjoyed this as well. And, um, yeah, thank you so much.
Steph Barron Hall: Of course.
Outro: Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show, and it’s so helpful for a new podcast like this one. If you want to stay connected, sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on Instagram @ninetypesco to tell me your one big takeaway from today’s show. I’d love to hear from you! I know there are a million podcasts you could have been listening to, and I feel so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me. Can’t wait to meet you right back here for another episode of Enneagram IRL very soon.
The Enneagram In Real Life podcast is a production of Nine Types Co. LLC. It’s created and produced by Stephanie Barron Hall, with editing support from Brandon Hall and additional support from Critz Collaborations. Thanks to Dr. Dreamchip for our amazing theme song. You can also check out all of their music on Spotify.
