Finding Your Guiding Light (Enneagram Virtues) with GLDN Founder and Enneagram 7, Chrissy Lavdovsky
On this week’s episode of Enneagram IRL, we meet with Chrissy Lavdovksy, the passionate founder and lead designer of GLDN Jewelry: a studio she started a decade ago with just fifty bucks in her pocket…and organically grew into the beloved brand it is today. Her dream was to create personal, meaningful jewelry that connects people to their stories and makers to their craft through conscious, thoughtful practices. Chrissy’s enthusiasm for design and love for exploring our humanness became the cornerstones of GLDN, transforming jewelry into intrinsically charged keepsakes that represent what you care about most.
GLDN just launched their biggest labor of love yet: the Enneagram Collection that they spent four years designing. The collection features a reversible necklace for every enneagram type, with custom symbols hand-illustrated by Chrissy to represent each type’s gift and guiding light.
Use code NINETYPES at checkout for 15% off the Enneagram Collection or any of their timeless, ethically-made staples.
🔗 Connect with GLDN!
📷 Instagram: @itsgldn
📱 TikTok: @itsgldn
🔗 Connect with Steph!
📷 Instagram: @ninetypesco
🎥 Youtube: @stephbarronhall
Here are the key takeaways:
The story behind the “Mom and…” Podcast
“Make your ellipsis count”
Missy’s typing journey as an Enneagram Nine
Susanne’s typing experience as an Enneagram Nine
Nine’s standing up for justice
Wings vs. subtypes
A breakdown of Self-Pres, Social, and One-to-one Nine
Brief growth paths for each subtype
What is it like working together as two Nines?
Taking time to rest and revitalize
Reflecting on the world shutting down during the pandemic
Numbing out the world as a Nine
Susanne and Missy’s advice to other Nines beginning their Self-discovery journey
Where to find the “Mom and…” duo!
Resources mentioned in this episode:
This Week’s Guest Picks:
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Enneagram Resources for you!
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Learn more about subtypes! Download my free subtypes guide here.
Want to keep learning? Join my Enneagram in Real Life course to start applying all this Enneagram knowledge and start GROWING! Check it out here: https://www.enneagramirl.com
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Listen to the Episode
Read the Transcript
Chrissy: [00:00:00] It’s really important, I think, for people who are starting out in the Enneagram to know that that sort of superficial intro you get at the beginning—don’t get turned off by that yet.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah.
Chrissy: There are ways—it’s almost like semantics—you know, they’re like, "Oh, you avoid things, you avoid pain." But I didn’t realize that pain for me was boredom or a lack of inspiration. You know, that was what caused me pain. It wasn’t things that were difficult per se, like difficult by traditional metrics of what people would want to avoid. So, you know, it’s those types of assumptions you have to be careful of when you’re reading the superficial results of your test. And that’s almost like my mission. I’m just like, hang in there, dig a [00:10:00] little deeper. Trust me, it’s going to be so worth it. Anyway, but it’s been a great journey.
Steph Barron Hall: Welcome back to another episode of Enneagram In Real Life, a podcast where we explore how to apply our Enneagram knowledge in our daily lives. I'm your host, Steph Barron Hall, and on today’s episode, I’m interviewing Chrissy Lavdovsky.
Chrissy Lavdovsky is a passionate founder and lead designer of GLDN Jewelry, a studio she started a decade ago with just $50 in her pocket and grew organically into the beloved brand it is today. Her dream was to create personal, meaningful jewelry that connects people to their stories and makers to their craft through conscious, thoughtful practices. Chrissy’s enthusiasm for design and her love for exploring our humanness became the cornerstones of GLDN, transforming jewelry into intrinsically charged keepsakes that represent what you care about most.
GLDN just launched their biggest labor of love yet, the Enneagram collection, which they spent four years designing. The collection features reversible necklaces for every Enneagram type with custom symbols, hand-illustrated by Chrissy, to represent each type’s gift and guiding light.
And I actually had the opportunity to chat with Chrissy a little bit back in 2019 because I thought it would be cool to have some sort of Enneagram jewelry, whether that was necklaces or rings, something like that. However, I’m not a jewelry designer, and so I really loved the jewelry that GLDN creates, and GLDN is spelled G-L-D-N. So, I thought it would be really cool to see them create something. And I reached out, and Chrissy and I chatted a bit, and she had already been working on this Enneagram collection at the time, which was so exciting to me because I couldn’t believe that somebody was that interested in the Enneagram as well. And also, she said she was excited to release the collection soon.
Fast forward to the end of last year, and I finally got the word that they were releasing this collection. GLDN was so kind to send me one of their necklaces, and I love it. If you watch the podcast on YouTube, you’ll probably see me wearing this gold necklace with a small square-looking pendant on it.
And that’s the GLDN necklace, and I love it. It’s so cute. It goes with everything, and I really love the meaning behind it. So, in today’s podcast, we’re going to talk through what she means by the gift and the guiding light of each type. You’ll notice that she’s highlighting some positive aspects of the types, as well as what we commonly refer to as the virtue in the Enneagram world.
So, the guiding light kind of aligns well with the virtue, in my perspective, and you’ll get to hear today a little bit about Chrissy’s thought process as she created that. She is very knowledgeable in the Enneagram, so it was really fun to get to chat with her about this. And, as a special gift, GLDN has offered all of us a discount code. So, you can use “NINETYPES”—all uppercase, N-I-N-E-T-Y-P-E-S—at checkout for 15% off the Enneagram collection or any of their timeless, ethically made staples. You’ll find that link and the discount code in the show notes, of course.
So, I am so thrilled to share this interview with you because not only is it a product that I really love, but also, when I saw the concepts for each of the designs, I could easily recognize how well the creator really knew the Enneagram. And I also noticed how thoughtfully they were designed and how beautiful they are. They have these small icons—again, you can see them, I will link them up for you if you just want to look at what the icons look like—but they are a great gift or something for yourself, if that’s what you’re interested in. So, without further ado, I hope you really enjoy this podcast episode as we talk about Chrissy’s path to finding her type, her inner work journey with the Enneagram, and all the things she’s been doing at GLDN over the last ten years that have culminated into this really beautiful collection that she’s created. And I also shared my thoughts on the pendant and the icons, as well as the words that were chosen for my type.
So, I hope you enjoy this episode. And without further ado, here is my conversation with Chrissy Lavdovsky.
Steph Barron Hall: Well, Chrissy, welcome to the podcast.
Chrissy: Thank you. I’m really excited to be here.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, I’m so excited to talk with you about the Enneagram and your company, GLDN. That’s how you say it, right?
Chrissy: Yeah, yeah.
Steph Barron Hall: I just stumbled over that because that’s how I always say it in my mind.
Chrissy: Yeah, it’s spelled G-L-D-N, but everyone just calls it GLDN, yeah.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah. Tell me a little bit about your background and what inspired you to create GLDN.
Chrissy: Yeah, I’ve always done a lot of creative things in my life. Ever since I can remember, I’ve just been making whatever it might be—quilts, furniture, pottery—just something. I love the creative process. And I think what often happened was I would be wanting to make things for people as gifts, as a way to share. It was almost like gifting was my love language. And I think what I really loved about it was trying to come up with something that was especially thoughtful or personal that I could give them so that they would feel seen or appreciated. I wasn’t good at saying those things, so I felt like if I could show them through whatever I was making, they’d really understand.
When I found jewelry, it just felt like such an obvious place to land and to really stay because jewelry is just so intrinsically charged with meaning, especially like the types of jewelry that we’re making now with these thoughtful, personalized details. It really does make people feel seen, and it’s just such a beautiful way to share this love of creating and creating these connections with others. So, yeah, that’s kind of how it all started. Like, we started on Etsy, and then it just sort of grew from there. And now we’ve got a fantastic team of makers here in La Conner who are really passionate about creating and sharing these things with people. The heart of GLDN is really the same, so yeah, it’s been awesome.
Steph Barron Hall: So cool. Yeah, I’ve been a fan, actually, for many years. I just really appreciate the simplicity of a lot of the work that you do but also the intricacy. I’m really excited to talk about the Enneagram collection in a moment, but before we get there, I do want to hear a little bit about how you discovered the Enneagram.
Chrissy: Well, I feel like it was something that had been on my radar a little bit. I’d heard a couple of times about it, but I hadn’t really known what it was until I heard some of the people on our creative team talking about it. And I instantly jumped in. I was like, "What is this that I haven’t heard about?" Because I’d always—if there’s ever been a personality test, I’m on it, ever since I can remember. I’ve always felt like I’ve been fascinated with my mind and how things are working because I’ve always just felt a little bit like too much, I guess, for lack of a better word. Like a little too intense, or just a little bit—I don’t know. And it just always caused so much self-reflection and this desire, this hunger to try and understand myself, like what was wrong, you know? And what can I do to sort of feel like I am more normal or whatever you want to call it.
And so, when the Enneagram came up, you know, I jumped on it. I took the test, and it came back that I was a Seven, which I was like, "Yeah, there’s no way. There’s no way I’m a Seven." I read through the descriptions, and I’m like, "Oh yeah, I’m a Four." You know, this whole idea of like something’s sort of broken in me, whatever, you know, came before. But the idea of the Seven, sure, the Enthusiast, like I can relate to that, but this idea of it being about avoiding pain—I’m like, "No, no. If there’s something difficult or hard, I go in, I double down. There’s no way. I don’t avoid anything."
And so, there was this sort of self-reflection. I couldn’t stop thinking about it because it was telling me I was something, and I was very sure that it was wrong. And so, I remember taking the test again a few months later, and yep, it was exactly the same result. So, I was like, "Okay, maybe there’s something here I’m missing." And that was kind of the beginning of it. I decided I needed to really dig in a little deeper and look at things. And it wasn’t until I learned about the wings and how different types could show up really differently or how your instinctual variants could have a lot of impact as well—like, I’m a sexual Seven. I think that definitely looks a lot different than what I was thinking about what a Seven would look like.
And so, anyways, there was this sort of back and forth of exploring. And when I got the book The Wisdom of the Enneagram, and there are those charts of health, that was really the turning point for me because, on the chart for the Seven, I remember the most unhealthy state. It said Sevens can often show up as bipolar. And I had been diagnosed as bipolar years ago, just after college. And that was a real moment for me because I realized there’s a really good chance here that I’ve got some blind spots that I am not aware of. And I got really serious about learning everything I could about the Enneagram at that point. And it was the most fabulous catalyst for my growth and evolution. It was just amazing.
And I realized that really what it was, was that my whole strategy towards life—it had a whole bunch of trauma in my childhood and all that sort of thing. And I’d positively reframed it. I’m like, "No, this made me a badass. This made me strong. This made me whatever." And I thought that I was totally unaffected by it. And so, I just kept moving, and I kept moving, and I kept moving so that I didn’t have to feel anything. And how did that manifest? Sometimes I just, you know, got totally manic at any cost. I just didn’t want to stop and feel. And so, it was just like, wow, all of a sudden, it unlocked all of this awareness for me that I just hadn’t tapped into before. And, like, what an awesome tool, you know? Like having these frameworks that can really give you insights, especially for blind spots.
Chrissy: Right. So anyway, I was really excited about that, and that was the beginning of my passion for the Enneagram. And then, obviously, the next step was I had to tell everybody I knew, like, "You guys have got to get into this. This is everything!" You know? I mean, I’ve taken all the tests—Myers-Briggs, DISC, Insights, all of them. They were great, sure, but nothing gave me this new level of self-awareness, I think.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that. And also, I work with a lot of teams, and that’s primarily what I do. And so frequently, somebody will say something like, "I’ve taken a bunch of these, but this is the first one that’s really stuck," or "This is the first one that really resonates." And I think that’s really helpful and important because, like you’re saying, I could understand, based on various things that you said, why you would really gravitate toward type Four. And then, looking at the deeper motivations, you’re like, "Oh no, now I’m starting to see this." Like, just questioning, "Do I have these blind spots?"
Chrissy: Yeah, well, it was things like that. It’s really important, I think, for people who are starting out in the Enneagram to know that that sort of superficial intro that you get at the beginning—don’t get turned off by that yet.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah.
Chrissy: There are ways—it’s almost like semantics—you know, they’re like, "Oh, you avoid things, you avoid pain." But I didn’t realize that pain for me was boredom or lack of inspiration. You know, that’s what caused me pain. It wasn’t things that were difficult per se, you know, like difficult by traditional metrics of what people would want to avoid. And so, you know, it’s those types of assumptions you have to be careful of when you’re reading the superficial results of your test. And that’s like my mission: I’m just like, "Just hang in there. Just dig a little deeper. Trust me, it’s going to be so worth it."
Steph Barron Hall: I love that.
Chrissy: Anyway, it’s been a great journey. I’m curious for you—did you have that moment of, "Oh, wait, there’s something here that I need to dig into more?" What was that moment like for you?
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, I remember when I first took the test—a random one online—it said I was the Achiever. And my immediate reaction was like, "Yes, I won!" You know, just such a Three thing to think.
Chrissy: I love it.
Steph Barron Hall: But then, pretty soon thereafter, I was reading more about it, and just recently, right before I found the Enneagram, I had started noticing that I showed up differently at work versus at school. At work, I would let people believe that I was a certain way, and honestly, at work, I was more opinionated about my real perspective. But not at school—in my church community at the time, I just let them believe that I kind of aligned with a lot of their views, even though I really didn’t, like, you know, at a soul level.
Chrissy: Yeah.
Steph Barron Hall: I was like, absolutely not. And so, I just noticed that I had these different sides of myself. Sometimes people say Threes don’t want these different groups of people to mingle because they’re afraid of what might happen. And I remember feeling that at the time, being like, "Oh wow," it was this feeling of being so exposed, like, "Oh my gosh, people can see me, and I’m not fooling them like I think I am." That was kind of the thing for me that really stuck out, and so that started me down this whole process.
Chrissy: Yeah. Yeah, it’s cool.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah. So, one thing that I really appreciate, and even talking with you I can hear some of it already, is that I really appreciate about the Enneagram collection how it has this deeper meaning behind each of the pieces. I wonder if you can share a little bit about developing these concepts because, like, I’m wearing mine today—which people, if they’re watching on YouTube, they can see—and how, on the front, you have something that represents what that type shows to the world, and then on the other side, it’s something they need more of internally. Could you share a little bit more about how you came up with that idea?
Chrissy: Yeah. I’d been wanting to bring the Enneagram and jewelry together somehow for years. As soon as I got excited about it, I was like, "Okay, we need to make some talisman or something." But, you know, it’s funny—I tried so hard on it for many years, and I kept coming back to it, and nothing really worked. Nothing felt right. And what I realized last year was that it was because I was trying to choose one concept to represent each type. And it just didn’t feel right to me because I love the Enneagram for its dynamism—it feels like a journey to me. It feels like a blueprint, a pathway for you toward self-actualization, like nine paths to self-mastery. It’s not about being stagnant or stuck in a certain identity.
So, I went back to the drawing board. Originally, I wanted to focus on when each type is at their healthiest state, when they’re thriving, and it felt like each type had a unique gift that they bring to the world. So, I thought, "Okay, I’ll focus on that, almost like an aspirational state." But that still didn’t quite feel right. So, back to the drawing board again.
For some reason, I started thinking about life lessons for each type. Like, is there a mantra or something that is the key for that type to get across, to help them on this path? And that’s where we landed on this idea of a guiding light—this sort of anchor point, the most important concept for each type that would really ground them in their truth, so that their strengths are both amplified and manifested positively, rather than potentially becoming a shadow side, which oftentimes our strengths can become.
It was a really fun process. I went back and looked at general life lessons—like, if I was going to write a kids’ book, or even with my son, what are the core life lessons that I feel like all wisdom can distill down to? And after writing them all out, it was so cool because they really did kind of line up beautifully with the guiding lights we had come up with for each type.
While anyone can benefit from the lessons of all types—who doesn’t need to be reminded of their intrinsic worth at any point, or the need to be present, or whatever—they’re all beautiful lessons. But the thing is, I feel like there’s a lesson that is particularly challenging for your type because it’s in tension with your natural strategy. And that ends up being the real secret to [00:20:00] self-mastery.
Chrissy: So the cool thing was that at the same time, I had been working on this project of symbols. It was something I had started about eight years ago, almost like a little side art project, where I was really excited about design and the power of composition to evoke feeling. You know, like a vertical line has a different feeling than a horizontal line or a diagonal line, which feels dynamic, or a dotted line versus a solid line. If you start putting together these different compositional elements, they really evoke different feelings.
So, I started creating this collection of symbols to represent almost like the human experience in a way. It had been part of my self-reflection. I would take something like courage, for example, and think, "What is really at the heart of courage? What is it about? If I had to distill this down into a simple symbol, how would that look?"
And so, when I had this idea for the Enneagram and then I had these symbols, it was like, “Perfect!” There was going to be such a beautiful marriage of them together. And it ended up that there was already a symbol for almost everything—everything except for, I think, the Type Eight guiding light of letting go. I had to create a new symbol for that, but that was the only one that wasn’t in the original collection. So, it was a beautiful way to bring those two things together.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, that’s so cool. I really like that. And I don’t know if you remember this, but in 2019, I was trying to find somebody who would do an Enneagram collection, and I emailed you.
Chrissy: Do you remember me saying that I had been working on something?
Steph Barron Hall: Yes, and you showed me some of the sketches, I think, and I was like, "Oh, that’s really cool. I can’t wait to see them come to life," because obviously, I’m not a jewelry designer.
Chrissy: That was so long ago! Yeah, I know, and I’m not kidding, I’ve been working on it since then. I thought I was close back then. Do you remember me saying it’s almost ready? Yeah, no, I changed my mind. It wasn’t ready. It wasn’t ready.
Steph Barron Hall: I think that it’s worth it. And I think what you ended up with is really beautiful. So, you have your gift, which I also think is really cool because it’s really easy, for me anyway, with the Enneagram, to get caught up in all the things that I wish I could change. I was just talking with somebody this week—a client—who said, "I just hate my type." And I think that’s common, especially for Threes who just learned about the Enneagram, and they’re like, "Oh no, people can see me!" So, I love that you framed it as a positive aspect. Even the thing you’re shining forth in your personality can have a positive element, and then you also have the guiding light as well.
Chrissy: Right. Yeah, I think that’s something that I don’t know—I don’t know, maybe I just naturally do that as a Seven. But I don’t see it like that, somehow. I mean, I do, but to me, all of those things that are quote-unquote "wrong" with each type, I’m like, "That’s just an awareness of your blind spot. This is awesome! Now you know, and you can be aware of it, and everything’s going to be awesome." You know, I don’t know. So, I’m really thinking about it in that way—there’s just such beauty in every type. And again, we have every type in us as well, you know? So, yeah, I feel like just being aware of the strengths that we each have and bring to any situation is such a nice perspective, and a nice way to think about things.
Steph Barron Hall: I wonder if we could run through each of the symbols—not the symbols themselves, but talk about each gift and guiding light.
Chrissy: Yeah, for sure. I would love to. Let’s do it.
Steph Barron Hall: Okay, let’s start with Type One.
Chrissy: Type One was actually the hardest one for me. The gift for Type One is integrity, and I actually changed this one at the last minute. Now I’m so glad I changed it because it really should be integrity. Which is funny, because I had just made a new friend who happened to be a One at the time, and I was just blown away by his integrity. I couldn’t believe it. Like, "This is how you live? This is genuine?" He had such a solid compass toward what was right, and it was so compelling to me. I had originally something like "improvement" for them, but now I’m like, "No, it’s integrity."
So, integrity is the gift, and the guiding light is acceptance.
For Type Two, the gift is connection—really connecting with others, seeing others, meeting them where they are. I think that’s such a beautiful gift of Twos. And the guiding light is worthiness.
For Type Three, the gift is achievement, and the guiding light is authenticity.
For Fours, the gift is uniqueness, and the guiding light is connectedness. That one is really about the oneness with all, knowing that you belong and are connected to everything.
For Fives, the gift is competence or expertise, knowledge, that sort of thing. I sometimes get stuck on the exact word for Fives, but the guiding light is abundance.
For Sixes, the gift is protection. That one was challenging for me because security, loyalty, and all that—I felt like the real underlying thing was this need to protect others, their space, their community. So, protection is the gift, and the guiding light is faith, mostly in themselves.
For Sevens, the gift is enthusiasm, and the guiding light is presence—being present.
For Eights, the gift is taking charge, and the guiding light is letting go.
For Nines, the gift is harmony, and the guiding light is self-empowerment.
Steph Barron Hall: I really like that.
Chrissy: Yeah.
Steph Barron Hall: So, with the guiding lights, I noticed that they align a lot with the virtues of the Enneagram. Was that intentional?
Chrissy: That’s a great question. Not directly intentional, no. I mean, gosh, I should show you the spreadsheets! There were so many data points I was looking at for this kind of thing, so yes, that was definitely part of what I was looking at for sure.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, because I just noticed that as you were going through, and even like going back to Four’s connectedness, describing it as being one with all of humanity and that whole concept of growth for Fours. It’s about—yes, it’s beautiful that you are distinct and significant, but you’re not separate. You’re not a different kind of species or something. You are one of the people, and everyone has their own uniqueness, and everyone has their own similarities. That blending in can actually be really scary for Fours, just like for all of us. I think when we’re not in a great place, our virtues, our higher ideals, or our essential self, can feel really scary when we read the description and we’re not ready for it yet.
Chrissy: That’s such a good point. I love that you just said that. Yeah, it’s true. Because a lot of times, if you read your guiding light and you’re like, "Oh hell no," you’re like, "Yep, that’s probably the right one." When I think of presence for me, it just makes me uncomfortable, you know?
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, yeah. And then you think about—I’ve worked with some Type Seven clients about this image of sobriety for the virtue, and even for some Sevens, there can be resistance to the concept of being grounded.
Chrissy: Yeah, it feels scary. It’s funny that you mention that because in the last four years, I’ve really doubled down on all my therapy and personal growth work. And it was because of that discovery I had with that chart, where I was like, "You know what? I don’t think I’m bipolar. I think I just haven’t dealt with my stuff yet." I thought, "Okay, Chrissy, it’s time. You’ve got to slow down and dig into this."
And that was one of the things that came up for me right at the beginning: I had never felt grounded in my life. I didn’t even know what that meant. And it was such an [00:30:00] unsettling feeling. But I would take that feeling any day over feeling stuck, especially if I’m stuck in feelings. So, I did a lot of work around that idea of being grounded.
And the coolest thing is that the whole time I’d been obsessively seeking fullness and intensity, this fullness of life. I wanted to squeeze every ounce out of things and not miss any potential experience. I wanted everything to be epic. If I started doing something, I’d think, "How can I make this even better?"
And once I was able to get a handle on being present, I realized that everything I’d been searching for and craving was actually in the moment. That bliss and fullness that you feel when you’re truly present is everything. It’s just been amazing. I actually feel like I’m a different person now than I was two years ago, for real. It’s been a transformation, and it’s because of that ability to be present. I actually feel grounded most of the time, and it’s just been a massive shift.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, that’s incredible. And that’s really hard work for Sevens, I know. And it’s hard work for all of us, but yeah, I think it’s especially hard for Sevens. One of the metaphors I really like to use when I think about the Enneagram is that we’re looking through a pinhole, right? Our type gives us this small pinhole of visibility into how the world really is. And the growth work we do helps us zoom out and see more of the full picture. And for Sevens, it’s like, "Okay, I have this specific vision of what it will look like to have more fullness," but in reality, if you open the lens a little more, you can see—
Chrissy: Yeah, yeah.
Steph Barron Hall: —that it’s already here.
Chrissy: It’s way easier. I mean, it’s actually not, but it is. You don’t have to be chasing. It’s here, and it’s in you. The beautiful thing is that presence actually amplifies my strengths. I feel like the enthusiasm I feel for any moment and for what’s around me, it’s like I feel more like myself than I ever have.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah.
Chrissy: Because all that chasing felt empty in the end. That’s the irony of it.
Steph Barron Hall: I’m curious because I’m sure if Sevens are listening, they’re like, "Okay, how the heck did she manage to find this?" What skills or practices have been most useful for you?
Chrissy: Okay, well, I would say the most important thing was actually learning to step outside my mind and see my thoughts as thoughts. That was through meditation. I use the Waking Up app. It’s just a fantastic way to train your mind to see your thoughts as thoughts and not as you—to separate thoughts from your actual being. That was the foundation for it.
I didn’t realize that I’m not my thoughts, you know? I used to honor my thoughts way too much. So, that was the first step. And then practicing actual gratitude—now, I hesitate to say gratitude because I often confuse that with enthusiasm, you know what I mean? But actual gratitude, peaceful gratitude, where you just appreciate what is, as it is. Compared to what I often do, which is, "I appreciate it so much, and now what’s next? Where can we take this?" So, that peaceful gratitude has been huge.
Finding that in everyday things—again, it’s almost like a type of meditation. Looking at a leaf and just really looking at that leaf, seeing the details in it. It almost brings me to tears now. I know it sounds cheesy, but I can look at anything now and feel overwhelmed by the majesty of life and the world. So, I think nurturing that in yourself is a good place to start.
It’s funny, but I also did RTT therapy—Rapid Transformational Therapy—that was by far the most impactful form of therapy I’ve done. I tried tons of different things, and talk therapy didn’t help me that much because I’m already in my head all the time. So, that was huge. It reprogrammed a lot of the core beliefs I didn’t even realize I had and made space for new ones that really serve me. So yeah, those were the most impactful.
Steph Barron Hall: Those are excellent, and I think so helpful, especially because they’re so accessible for people. Sometimes we get really intimidated with growth work because we think, "Oh my gosh, I’m going to have to buy all these expensive things or do all this expensive therapy." But even just starting with meditation, even a meditation app—there are tons of great free ones. I use Insight Timer a lot, which is free. Or even just looking at a leaf, like you said, that’s really cool.
And I love the differentiation between enthusiasm and peaceful gratitude because I can see where that would get confused. Enthusiasm is like throwing gasoline on the fire—it’s like, "Let’s go! If this fire is big, let’s see how much bigger we can make it." But having that perspective of a different way to experience gratitude is really cool.
Chrissy: Yeah, yeah, it is funny because I have to catch myself when I’m feeling gratitude for something. My next thought is often, "Who could I share this with? Who else would love this too?" rather than just being present in that moment. It’s another sneaky way of thinking, "What’s next?"—the whole what’s next thing.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, for sure. How do you feel about the guiding light for Threes?
Chrissy: I think it’s really helpful. I think authenticity really aligns well with veracity. And I think it’s been a process for me. Last year, I went through this season of burnout, and I’m still kind of coming out of it. I haven’t even made it back onto social media and stuff like that. But through this season of burnout, I finally realized, "I don’t actually have the capacity anymore to do things that don’t feel aligned." Obviously, everyone has to wash their dishes, but I mean, to show up in spaces where it doesn’t feel aligned.
What I mean by that is doing things where it’s like, "Well, this is just the way it has to be done." Some people have these certain ways that you're supposed to write a sales page or sell coaching or how much your coaching packages should cost and all these things. And it’s just been a discovery process of realizing, "If I don’t want to do it that way, I’m not going to." I think that’s been really important for me. So, I think authenticity is a really helpful part of the process.
It’s hard for me sometimes to think of achievement as a gift because I had this belief that anything about the Three that came naturally was bad and was something to get rid of, right? So, I worked for a long time on suppressing anything that was Three-ish. If I wanted to push really hard at something, I would say, "No, you can’t do that. That’s wrong. That’s bad." There are other reasons for that, but it’s just been in the last year—or even the last six months—that I’ve been like, "Oh, it can actually be a healthy, helpful, and beautiful thing to have that side of me. It doesn’t mean I have to be driven by it, but I can offer it."
Chrissy: That’s fantastic. I mean, as long as it’s aligned with what you truly care about, the ability to be efficient with resources, your time, and getting people on board and making something happen—that’s such a superpower, you know? And I feel like, yeah, I can see exactly what you’re saying. I know where you’re coming from, but from the outside, it’s like, "Wow, what a great natural gift," as long as it’s feeling aligned with you and your truth.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah.
Chrissy: Are you feeling better about it now? Do you feel like you can lean into it a bit more?
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, I mean, I’m starting to. What I’m recognizing is the difference between [00:40:00] achievement in the sense of building things and doing things that are useful in the world versus achievement for achievement’s sake, or running myself ragged for that. It’s hard work, right? Because I want it to happen overnight. I want it to be done yesterday. But finding ways to do work that I’m really passionate about—which I do get to do, and I’m super lucky to be able to do that—while also making sure that I’m working hard and intentionally at it, I find a lot of meaning in that. But also, making space for the other things that are important to me in my life and having a bit of separation between work and home—which, when you own your own business, it all blends together.
Chrissy: Oh, that’s a whole challenge, for sure.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah. I’m curious about—I totally lost my train of thought. Oh, I wanted to ask if you’ve gotten pushback on any of the words, the guiding lights.
Chrissy: I haven’t, actually. I thought I was going to get a lot more, but that’s just how my mind works. I’m not skeptical, but I have this lens of, "Wait, but what about this?" So, I was expecting a lot of people to be questioning, like, "Why did you choose this word? It should be this one." But I’m really surprised, actually. I wonder if it’s because we did add an explanation behind the words, which I think is really important because a word can be interpreted in so many different ways, right? It’s really about the sentiment, the concept, more than the specific word. So, yeah, we haven’t had much of that. But we’ll see what happens!
Steph Barron Hall: No, I was just curious. I think it’s—
Chrissy: People coming in with ideas. To be honest, that’s part of why it took me so long to publish this. I wanted to feel really sure about it. But it’s hard to feel really sure when we’re talking about concepts and language and the possibility of things being interpreted differently. At some point, you just have to stop worrying about it being perfect and just get it out there.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, absolutely.
Chrissy: Yeah.
Steph Barron Hall: I was kind of thinking about that. I noticed as you were walking through them that it was really an exercise in limitation, especially as a Seven, I’m sure, to declare just one word for each of these categories for each type. But for Type Eight—I guess Type Eight is the only one that’s two words, right?
Chrissy: Yeah, "letting go." I mean, is there a single word for that? I don’t know.
Steph Barron Hall: Well, the thing it evokes for me is a feeling of lightness. Eights often carry the world on their shoulders, and especially social Eights, who I end up working with a lot. In general, they’re so protective of everyone, not just themselves, but of people in their lives. They carry so much. So, the concept of letting go reminds me of lightness—of not having to carry so much of a burden. Letting go of the stuff they’ve had to carry, especially since we often see that Eights are parentified as children. So, the ability to let go aligns with innocence.
Chrissy: I can see that lightness. Yeah, for me, with the Eights in my life, the letting go piece had a lot to do with making space for other energies, other opinions, and other perspectives to come in. It’s almost like letting go is also about letting down your guard, letting down that wall because you have to let that goodness in. So, there’s an element of that for me, too. It was really hard not to let the people in my life influence my thinking as I did all this work because, obviously, it’s a very small sampling of every type. But I have so many Eights in my life, and I felt like that was always a pain point—that resistance to being permeable at all, especially when there’s conflict. It limits their potential experience.
But I do love the symbol for that one. "Letting go" is one of my favorites.
Steph Barron Hall: They’re all so good. And I’m not a fan of Enneagram merch, basically. I mean, I did start my business creating coffee mugs, but I would not wear a t-shirt that said, "I’m a Three." But I love that the jewelry has a deeper meaning, and if somebody doesn’t know about it, they’re not going to know.
Chrissy: Yeah, for sure.
Steph Barron Hall: Do you feel like—I know you said at the beginning you weren’t excited about being a Three, but do you feel differently now?
Chrissy: Yeah, I think I do feel differently, mostly just because I’ve worked so much on self-acceptance and self-compassion over the last few years. I think that feels different. I think I can see some of the good things about being a Three as well, like the things that have allowed me to do a lot of the teaching and the work that I do naturally. I’m not afraid to get up on a stage—I think it’s fun. A lot of people are terrified of that. And that’s something I appreciate about myself now. So, yeah, I think I can appreciate some of those things.
Chrissy: I love Threes. I have so many Threes in my life. I find that Threes, Sevens, and Eights are most of the people I have around me, except lately, I’ve been meeting a lot of Nines.
Steph Barron Hall: Hmm.
Chrissy: Yeah, it’s interesting. My son is a Nine, and he’s taught me so much. He’s actually my best teacher.
Steph Barron Hall: Just manifesting that peaceful gratitude like you were saying.
Chrissy: Yeah, he can just be in contentment. He’s so happy with whatever is happening at the moment. It’s like, "Do you want anything?" And he’s like, "No, I’m good." I’m like, "What? What do you mean?" It’s so interesting. He’s very content and peaceful, and it’s really beautiful to be around.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, that’s beautiful. And I’ve been noticing that a lot lately, how for so many of us, the people in our lives—opposites attract, right? They bring out the different things that we need to learn from.
Chrissy: Yep, I agree. Well, it’s funny because if I look at my past, Sevens, Threes, and Eights were probably the people around me the most because they kept moving too, so I didn’t have to slow down. But now, I feel like if I look at it, I have a much wider range of types, especially Nines. I’m okay now just chilling, you know, that sort of thing. It’s been nice.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, that’s beautiful. Well done on all of your growth work. That’s really amazing.
Chrissy: It’s scary, right? Gosh, it’s scary, but honestly, the Enneagram was really the catalyst. I didn’t realize there was as much stuff under there as there was because I’m a master at changing the story so that everything is actually awesome. So, I had no idea.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, totally. Well, before we get into our final few questions, where can everyone find GLDN and especially this Enneagram collection?
Chrissy: Yeah, so we only sell online at gldn.com. There should be links to the Enneagram collection, but if not, you can just search "Enneagram" on our site. And on social, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok at @itsgldn, spelled out G-L-D-N, and that’s it.
Steph Barron Hall: Perfect! I’ll link that up in the show notes, of course, and show everyone my necklace that I wear all the time. Actually, the first week I had this necklace, I had a horrible allergic reaction to something, and I was like, "No, please don’t be the necklace!" It wasn’t—it was actually alpaca sweaters!
Chrissy: Me too! It’s the worst because they’re so soft and amazing.
Steph Barron Hall: I know! It was sudden, out of nowhere. I was like, "Oh my gosh, now I have hives all the time when I wear that." But yes, thrilled with the necklace. It’s so beautiful, and I can’t wait to [00:50:00] show everyone.
So, final two closing questions I ask all my guests. First, tell me about a book that has helped you, refreshed you, or shaped you in the last year.
Chrissy: Ooh, I actually re-read a book that I’d been reading a lot at the beginning of my journey, The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. It’s just such a fantastic place to start or to go back to refresh that awareness of your mind and your thought patterns. It’s about presence, and I find it really grounding. That’s the best word to describe it.
Steph Barron Hall: Beautiful, I love that. Okay, finally, what is a piece of advice that has really stuck with you?
Chrissy: The advice I’ve been coming back to the most lately is something I heard in the Waking Up meditation app that I use. It’s the idea that this may be the last time, so savor the moment. This concept of, "This might be the last time you drive to work, this might be the last time you go skiing, this might be the last time you visit this place." I remind myself of that as much as I can whenever I feel like a beautiful moment is happening, but I’m not really present in it. I’m already moving on to the next thing. So I take a moment—honestly, like 30 seconds—of feeling it, like letting yourself feel, "This might be the last time I’m going to be here or be with this person." It’s so moving. It fills you with so much gratitude, and it’s the best mantra. I love it. I actually want to get a tattoo on my arm that says "The Last Time" because I feel like it’s so powerful. It’s just a beautiful lens to see things through. It’s a combination of presence and gratitude, which I think is fantastic.
Steph Barron Hall: Yeah, and it forces you to slow down and really see.
Chrissy: Exactly.
Steph Barron Hall: I love that. Beautiful.
Chrissy: Yeah.
Steph Barron Hall: Well, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been so fun, and I really appreciate you sharing your perspective on the Enneagram and this collection. Like I said, I really appreciate it, and I’ve actually been sharing it with my friends, just like in text, like, "Oh my gosh, look at this!" So, I really hope that all of our listeners love it as well.
Chrissy: Thank you so much, Steph. I’ve really enjoyed this. It’s been fantastic speaking with you.
Steph Barron Hall: Thanks!
Outro: Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show, and it’s so helpful for a new podcast like this one. If you want to stay connected, sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on Instagram @ninetypesco to tell me your one big takeaway from today’s show. I’d love to hear from you! I know there are a million podcasts you could have been listening to, and I feel so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me. Can’t wait to meet you right back here for another episode of Enneagram IRL very soon.
The Enneagram In Real Life podcast is a production of Nine Types Co. LLC. It’s created and produced by Stephanie Barron Hall, with editing support from Brandon Hall and additional support from Critz Collaborations. Thanks to Dr. Dreamchip for our amazing theme song. You can also check out all of their music on Spotify.
